Great job.
Regards

juice wrote:

rowly747 wrote:Edc15 easy just make the entire map the same value. If the highest number in decimal is 1000 then select the entire map and fill with 1000, done egr closed.

For EDC15 by putting the max value in whole table is not working man, is killing your turbo, is like you dont have any turbo.
Not sure why this but i can tell for sure because i tested. The logiq is correct , 1000 mg air mass all the time, but i think its going in limp mode because at idle , maximul air mass is 500 mg, and remains in limp mode.

What are you talking about? Done that on my 1.9 130HP TDI PD and no limp mode what so ever...been running like this for nearly last 2 years now. This map is purely to drive EGR valve, nothing to do with turbo or anything else :lol:

Have to agree with this.
The EGR creates the required MAF by opening the EGR valve to drop requested boost.
The modulating of the EGR valve regulates the MAF.
Once you turn the EGR off, the MAF is controlled by requested MAP only....unless torque limiters kick in first.

If you request 1000 mg/stroke MAF and the requested MAP only provides 600.... boost is not increased by closing the EGR valve.
The EGR valve is already shut because you are below 1000mg.

If MAP provides 1200 mg/stroke and requested MAF is 1000 mg/stroke than the EGR valve will opened until 1000mg/stroke is achieved.

If you are getting 1000mg/stroke at idle its because your MAP request is off the scale.
That's why you are entering limp mode and requested such boost so early will destroy the turbo.
In this case its your EGR that has been protecting your engine.

Relic wrote:Have to agree with this.
The EGR creates the required MAF by opening the EGR valve to drop requested boost.
The modulating of the EGR valve regulates the MAF.
Once you turn the EGR off, the MAF is controlled by requested MAP only....unless torque limiters kick in first.

If you request 1000 mg/stroke MAF and the requested MAP only provides 600.... boost is not increased by closing the EGR valve.
The EGR valve is already shut because you are below 1000mg.

If MAP provides 1200 mg/stroke and requested MAF is 1000 mg/stroke than the EGR valve will opened until 1000mg/stroke is achieved.

If you are getting 1000mg/stroke at idle its because your MAP request is off the scale.
That's why you are entering limp mode and requested such boost so early will destroy the turbo.
In this case its your EGR that has been protecting your engine.

copillot, Relic is right!
I said 'killing turbo' not destroying it, only limiting pressure and fuel quantity:) limp mode.
I found a dynamic map for EGR ..EGR is active between 20 and 120 degrees and 880 and 900 mbar...By this map EGR is now working until Patm reaches 900 mbar and min 20 degrees..not i put that 900 to 1100 mbar , EGR is closed now, no more vacuum, no more errors even if i have egr blocked physically.
Relic whats your opinion about blocking EGR on diesel cars? Can egr help with something?

In the short term I see no benefit on the cars that turn egr off at WOT anyway.
The main problem for me was EGR killed performance.
But if EGR is off by hysterisis anyway..... who cares.
[you still get initial lag though while the EGR shuts]

The other problem is engine life.
EGR shoves soot and particles through the inlet manifold and engine.
These particles mix with the oil and increase wear on rings, bearings and especially timing chains.
They also mix with crank case oil mist and make a sludge that blocks the mainfolds.
I have seen many plug the EGR for this reason alone.

Given the choice I would remove swirl (to increase VE) and egr (to increase temps).
But the impact on timing could be critical and dangerous.

U quys get all wrong how TDI works. EGR is purely emission related BS to reduce NO in emissions. Nothing to do with regulating boost pressure. MAF is there pretty much ONLY to dedect if and how EGR is functioning, though on older TDI s it is used for MAF limiter i.e. smoke limiter map to make sure there is not too much fuel injected to given IQ that could cause smoke. Required boost is IQ and rpm related(least on EDC15p ECU) and to make turbo to build boost there is N75 to move VNT so boost could build up faster and stay as ECU requires. I could not find any maps on my EDC15P where boost would be requlated based on MAF actual neither MAF requested etc. Even N75 is based on IQ and RPM.

Yes, on EDC16 you need hysteresis to change as ECU is more complicated and would realise there is something wrong when you just flat the EGR maps though LIMP mode is quite not suspected. One of my other forum member, who just disconnected EGR plug from its 2.0PD TDI engine, got MIL but engine worked alot smoother and also there were some shudder when easy driving which now was gone. Only thing it affects was DPF regeneration due MIL from EGR plug disconnected.


I have done many LOGS via VCDS and could not see any boost creaps, overpressure at any engine speeds etc etc....also could not see any actual high boost increase either on idle or up to 2000rpm where EGR is used though for example at idle normally MAF requred and after altering by EGR is 250mg/str but when blocked and EGR map FLAT there is pretty much no increase in boost though MAF flow is nearly twice as high at the same RPM now. Not trying to insalt anybody, but when looking how IQ etc is limited and based on my car your saying just does not make any sence.

Only fact i could agree is MIL as now you got requested and actual other way round difference hence i have not seen so far not a single code or MIL due EGR blank off and flattening the map. Still,Required boost and regulating boost has nothing to do with MAF actual. Besides EGR will remain closed over certain RPM and IQ relation i.e. wot and your MAF actual could go and goes over 850mg/str always...have a look how EGR duty cycle acts at high engine speeds: will remain EGR closed.

copilot wrote:Only fact i could agree is MIL as now you got requested and actual other way round difference hence i have not seen so far not a single code or MIL due EGR blank off and flattening the map. Still,Required boost and regulating boost has nothing to do with MAF actual. Besides EGR will remain closed over certain RPM and IQ relation i.e. wot and your MAF actual could go and goes over 850mg/str always...have a look how EGR duty cycle acts at high engine speeds: will remain EGR closed.

I just said how my ECU is acting. IF i put all values to max value from EGR map, i get limp mode. IF i only block egr pshysically car works fine without any difference, no limp mode no checklight just an error stored in ecu "air mass too high".
I found how to block EGR, there for bmw cars is another map which tells to EGR to be ON between 20 and 120 degrees and only when PaTM reaches 900 mbar..now i put that value to 1200..and this Pam will never be reached or very rare..well egr closed, no errors..and i totally removed the pipe between egr cooler and intake manifold, because intake manifold was getting hot because of that egr PIPE and blocked hot gases.

Relic wrote:Have to agree with this.
The EGR creates the required MAF by opening the EGR valve to drop requested boost.
The modulating of the EGR valve regulates the MAF.
Once you turn the EGR off, the MAF is controlled by requested MAP only....unless torque limiters kick in first.

If you request 1000 mg/stroke MAF and the requested MAP only provides 600.... boost is not increased by closing the EGR valve.
The EGR valve is already shut because you are below 1000mg.

If MAP provides 1200 mg/stroke and requested MAF is 1000 mg/stroke than the EGR valve will opened until 1000mg/stroke is achieved.

If you are getting 1000mg/stroke at idle its because your MAP request is off the scale.
That's why you are entering limp mode and requested such boost so early will destroy the turbo.
In this case its your EGR that has been protecting your engine.

Req boost would newer go as high at idle or low rpm due torque limiter. As for more, even when WOT boost would not be allowed to go rocket high due torque limiter regardless of MAF available and there is also boost limiter so can you explain how egr protect turbo? There must be something else wrong when your cars going limp mode even when idle. And also,some people does not know that when you max out egr map on edc15 you must either disconnect vac line or use block off plate to block off infeed to valve from egr pipe...thats prob due for some reason egr valve could be become full open(don t know why) and chocke the engine i.e. you get low power at all times like mentioned before. And that s what i did i.e. vac line off on my PD edc15p. My VE TDI got MSA 15 ecu and on that one did VCDS mode(maf requested minimum 350mg/str vac line off and infeed egr pipe removed and block off plates used...done about 40k KM and not a single MIL or EGR related codes. Just to mention that may PD EDC14P engine is euro3 and still yet no issues at all.

juice wrote:

copilot wrote:Only fact i could agree is MIL as now you got requested and actual other way round difference hence i have not seen so far not a single code or MIL due EGR blank off and flattening the map. Still,Required boost and regulating boost has nothing to do with MAF actual. Besides EGR will remain closed over certain RPM and IQ relation i.e. wot and your MAF actual could go and goes over 850mg/str always...have a look how EGR duty cycle acts at high engine speeds: will remain EGR closed.

I just said how my ECU is acting. IF i put all values to max value from EGR map, i get limp mode. IF i only block egr pshysically car works fine without any difference, no limp mode no checklight just an error stored in ecu "air mass too high".
I found how to block EGR, there for bmw cars is another map which tells to EGR to be ON between 20 and 120 degrees and only when PaTM reaches 900 mbar..now i put that value to 1200..and this Pam will never be reached or very rare..well egr closed, no errors..and i totally removed the pipe between egr cooler and intake manifold, because intake manifold was getting hot because of that egr PIPE and blocked hot gases.

Juice,flat your EGR map and remove vac line...works champ. If you leave EGR map as ori,yes you get air mass too high. Due greenpeace hysterics lobby it is more likely to get high airr mass flow than other way round :lolno: