Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby sike_145 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:05 pm

This is my mappack and all maps that I found. However, for some maps I'm not sure on what address are data for x and y axe.
Also, not sure if everything important is recognized as should be..
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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby mladenke » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:00 am

x and y for that map is ok. Some other rail map you named as iq/tq conversion. that is railP depen. iq ,and you have one map, iq depend. by railP.

Just do like i sad. Use linear interpolation for new IQ, 75 and 80mm3, than calculate EOI, and from that EOI you can adjust your SOI map. 2 degres in soi <2-2500rpm and 30mm3, will be ok for eco fuel consumption, in teory, but in high IQ and revs that EOI will not be good for max power.

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby sike_145 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:31 pm

OK, thanks for tip about additional CRP maps!

Now, let's go from begining :)

First, I look in TL map, and there is IQ > 70mm^3 starting at 1810 RPMs till 4333 RPMs.

Now, I look for that range of RPMs and IQ in this map:
crp1.jpg

But there is only IQ up to 55mm^3, and as 50 and 55 columns are same, than all higher values will also be same CRP. Lowest CRP is 1000 and highest 1350 (which is also max. railP). This map looks like limiter map...am I right?

Second railP map (that you point me to it) is this:
crp2.jpg

There is max IQ of 60mm^3, and railP is somewhere higher than 1350...so this should be railP request map by IQ? However, in both maps values for railP are between 1000 and 1350 bar...so with this values I'm going to duration map (values for 80mm^3 is from other remap, and not OK as you said):
doi.jpg


Then, if I go and do some math, I can calculate how much us is needed for 1mm^3 increase of iq:
doi_calc.jpg

And here lays the problem.
As you can see, for 1000 bar, and range between iq=50 to 60, there is needed 9,6us for 1mm^3 increase. From 60 to 65, there is need for 23us for 1mm^3 increase, and from 65 to 70 there is need for 20,4us for 1mm^3 increase. Not loggical to me. And if calculate how much is needed bewteen 60 and 70...it is average value of 21,7us. So...what value to use for calculating increase from 70 to 80? In this case I used values from 65 to 70...so in column named new80 are new calculated values for duration. Should I use them?


And what is your opinion about best EOI for high IQs to reach maximum power?
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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby mladenke » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:13 pm

if you use linear interpolation you get for 80mm3:
4098
3790
4098
3443
2716
2150
1705
1331
1212
1154
979
1093
871

You see what is different from yours?

For best EOI you will have to go on dyno. And best EOI for me is not best for you. Try to calc. factory EOI, it will be as i remember @3200rpm -3.5 degrees, @3500 -2 degrees, @4000rpm -1,5 degrees. So, try to set your EOI at 1-2 deegres ATDC and try. But you must doing some messurement for EGT, cyl. pessure and so on... Or set your torque limit on the verge of slipping, and set you EOI at 2 ATDC and do wot acceleration. if your cluch sliping from 2000 rpm than is good EOI,You have some more HP. Pay attention on EG, white smoke has early EOI, black smoke is late EOI. But dyno with cyl. pressure and EGT is the best to do.

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby mladenke » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:17 pm

when you do a linear interpolation, do it on last two column, ex. 65-70mg. Last picture is good duration for 80mm3

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby sike_145 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:42 pm

Thanks for very useful informations!!!
I will try to recalculate SOI map for high IQ...

However, question that is going through my mind is why is this values that I "stoled" for duration obviously wrong. Problem is...two pro chiptuners are done this values (one from your country, other from mine)...I acctualy payed them for tuning. And both "missed" fuel/temp limiter...and same values for duration and SOI for 80mm^3. Strange, very strange.

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby sike_145 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

And one thing more that is bothering me...acctualy, stock SOI map covers IQ up to 75 mm^3...so if i never go up 75mm^3 (and I don't with this remap)...do I really need to modify SOI? And why is there SOI map that goes only to 55 mm^3...do I need to modify it also? That other "pro" tuners do it.

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby mladenke » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:15 am

Take calculation for EOI and you will know what you have to modify. ;)

One is soi with pilot, other is soi without. Your values in "pro" duration map is maybe good for 1400railP, but your railP is stock. If you planed to put 80mm3 IQ, i will rise railP to 1400.

And for missed Iq/temp limiter, i dont want to comment. ;)

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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby sike_145 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:20 am

Here is my corrected remap. I raised railP to 1400 and calculated SOI from EOI. Can you please check did I increase railP in proper way and not missed some limiters?

And something that I have to say...I still think that interpolating last two columns in duration map is not OK. I think that my "stolen" values are better...but not ideal also. Here is why:

This is difference between my previous values (upper graph) and new calculated values:
crp_diff.JPG


As you can see, upper graph is more linear, while second one with new values have brake on 60mm^3 and from that point raises much faster. It can be seen much better at this graphs:

My "stolen" values:
graf2.JPG


and linear interpolation from last two columns:
graf1.JPG


It is highly clear that after 60mm^3 duration increases in much higher steps than before 60mm^3 where is a preety nice linear. And in stock map, max IQ is 60,9 mm^3, so it's clear that values higher than 60mm^3 are never used, so they are inacurate (by my logic). I think that correct values should be to use 50-60mm^3 step and from that columns make linear interpolation up to 80mm^3 (or in my case can be up to 75mm^3 because I don't ask higher IQ than that)

So last 4 columns should be something like this:
65 70 80 80
0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0
4201 4304 4510 4510
3546 3711 4041 4041
3014 3158 3446 3446
2518 2741 3187 3187
1969 2145 2497 2497
1460 1585 1835 1835
1136 1211 1361 1361
958 1006 1102 1102
865 909 997 997
837 879 963 963
825 869 957 957
809 854 944 944
762 805 891 891
0 0 0 0


And that is producing very nice graph:
graf3.JPG


There is also some little break at about 50mm^3 and railP > 800 bar...but is more linear than other two. So, what are you thinking about this idea?
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Re: Alfa 156 JTD 8V 115HP

Postby mladenke » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:37 pm

I prefer to use math calculation on duration. not looking at charts. :D I will take a look latter for railP, but if you rise railP in 7a46c, and in railP limiter, i dont remmeber map address, than its ok. Best to do is diag log after changing somthing. Smole change than diagnostic log , smole change than diagnostic log.

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