Hi Ross,

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like that, but the 2nd part of the question is the important one.

What are values at 4000rpm looking like?


As said above, I'm running a MAF map as AFR here via TunerPro which is cool, I'll post some pics later!

Dave

No worries Dave, I wasnt being serious! :D

I can't remember off the top of my head what they are exactly at 4000rpm, I'll try and do some more logging today and report back. I'm running less boost in my new file, so the MAF figures will have changed.

It's kinda harder on the 110 because you have to choose the boost, rather than the 90 where it finds it's own balance in some regards.

More boost than needed costs you power and adds turbo lag, but then too little boost and you limit power, or run into smoke.

I'm fairly certain 140bhp/240lbft if totally ok on these engines with the appropriate boost.


On the HDi90's I'd easily see 1250 maf values logged in a mid range with 285lbft of torque, and maybe 1000 maf at 3500rpm with 150-155bhp.

I log MAF here outside of PP and populate tables, with engine load in rows, rpm in columns, so I kinda get a MAF peak value at given loads/rpm map... takes a while to populate but if you have a max value table and an average value table you start to get a nice picture of what is available for mixing with fuel :D

I have maps of this from literally tens, if not 50+ cars, standard to tuned etc.

Dave

Interesting infor Dave, thanks. On my 110 I'm limiting torque to about 220lbft (~300NM) as its my daily drive and I want to preserve the clutch somewhat. I've swapped the DMF out for a Valeo solid conversion last summer, so it should be good for a while yet.
Max boost I ran on mine was 1.2bar and that was smoke free, so I dropped it to 1.1 and its still pretty much free of the black stuff. Again imo, the less boost the better, you preserve the life of the turbo :angel: , of course it depends on your priorities (Max performance, or max reliability).

I'll log some values later and post them up here.

Ross, care to share your ori file and pics of your TL and smoke map (text tables if you want)

Just trying to figure out your curve over the smoke map that your IQ's follow.


Dave

OK, I've been going over my old maps and I guess I'd say I've been sitting around 13:1 AFR off boost, and about 16:1 on boost as an overall trend.

The off-boost line kinda rises up as the revs rise, and then dips a little, so about 12:1 at 1000rpm or so, 14:1 in the mid range rpm, and then 13:1 by high rpm.

At high rpm I seem to be leaner on boost at low rpm, then richen through 3000rpm, then run leaner again out to max power, maybe 14:1 at the richest, 18:1 either side.


So I suppose I have the smoke map more dynamic at each end of the rpm, and flatter in the middle of the rpm.


I now have Tuner Pro set up with two maps to see the same data, as mm3 data IQ's and also as MAF value referenced, mg corrected AFR data.


Dave

13:1 - That sounds like a recipe for dense thick black smoke and very very high EGT?? :?
My tune files are on my other computer - I'll post them when I can get back onto that in a few hours. Like I said, I'm running a pretty stock smoke map, apart from the 900mg column, which I've raised the values to accommodate the tune. On full acceleration it follows the torque limiter perfectly. The "transient" values (i.e everything lower than the 900mg column) have been left stock.

Torque Limit

Smoke

No excessive smoke here.

Maybe it doesn't inject that much because of other maps/limiters elsewhere, or corrections? Logging these elements is hard due to update rate so it's hard to be sure exactly if the IQ's are right and limited via smoke map or other maps at this point, or factored down somewhere else etc.

There may also be other factors at work. If the burn is complete and efficient in good time there is no reason that it should be heavy thick smoke at 13:1

I think those occasions are rare though, mostly I'm up over 15:1 or higher at normal MAF flows...

With some high speed logging of MAF value maybe you could get a clearer picture of how MAF changes in different driving conditions.


Next time I have a standard car that the person is happy to test for an extended period, I'll happily log a fresh table of MAF vs load vs rpm... I remember in the end I often just logged min values, peak values and then an average value vs rpm... the large matrix taking a LONG time to fill with meaningful data... but it's worth it I think for the learning/reference!

I'll try do it on a standard HDi110 as it's more valuable wrt what car you are tuning :D

Dave

hi, i have too a HDi 110 but i need to study a lot to understand all, i'm studing the basic things but for now is very complicated to me. what you recomend to study in begin? what i wanna learn is to give more power (+11hp) and the consumption be the same or reduced. I already heard what about thing it is possible.